The Influencer

[start of recording]

Do you want anything before we start? Water, coffee, soda?

Maybe some water?

Sure, let me grab you a water bottle. Have a seat. I'll be right back and then we'll do a quick sound check.

Gotcha.

[faint humming]

Here you go. How do the headphones feel? Are they comfortable?

They feel fine.

Great, we'll talk a bit while I check levels, then I'll introduce you, and we'll be good to go.

Sounds good, James. Wow. There is a ton of equipment in here. You don't fuck around, huh?

[laughter] Well, I guess audio is kind of my thing.

I know, I've been listening to your podcast for a while.

Really? That surprises me.

Why's that?

Well, I guess I don't expect someone who, how shall I say, looks like you? To listen to such a techie podcast.

Ouch. You underestimate me. I love your podcast.

Sorry, that came out more dismissive than I intended. It's just that you aren't exactly representative of my core demographic. You know, aging nerds, don't get out much, obsessed with old movies...

What, I'm not allowed to be a nerd? I love audio, I love movies, I love hearing about the behind the scenes stuff, and I'm gay. I'd say I'm pretty representative of your listeners.

OK, fine, I'll grant you provisional nerd status for coming to talk with me today.

[laughter]

Are you ready to go, Chris? We're all set. I'm already recording. I'll introduce you when you're ready.

I'm ready if you are.

Great. Hello folks! Today I'm sitting here with the legendary Chris [redacted], social media influencer extraordinaire, denizen of the gay glitterati and event circuit world-wide. You've probably seen him, at least partly naked, on posters and in advertisements around LA, New York, London, Sydney, Tokyo. Probably not Dubai.

[laughter]

But! That's not all. His new web series is racking up millions of views on youtube. In it, he shows us there's

also

a lot going on, between his ears. Welcome, Chris! Thanks for being here.

Thank you James, I'm really happy to be on the podcast. I can say that I've never been introduced quite like that before. And only slightly patronizing!

Patronizing? I thought I was being laudatory.

Why do I get the sense that you kind of have it out for me today?

You know what, you're right. I could try to play dumb, but you're absolutely right. I think I am gunning for you. And it's because, well, look at you, Chris. Lightening isn't supposed to strike twice. Or in your case, judging from your leaked nudes, eight and a half or nine times?

[laughter]

You're beautiful, you're talented, you're smart. I think maybe I'm just kinda jealous.

Wow, we're getting right into it. Don't you warm a guy up first, James?

Well, I've interviewed a lot of people, and nobody really holds a candle to you in the looks department. I interview sound editors and set designers. Audio engineers. Crew. Behind the camera people, at best. When they're even allowed in the same room as a camera. And I've always kind of rolled my eyes at the idea of paying someone just to show up at an event. But when I met you, just now, outside my studio... I get it. You're just, incredibly, incredibly good looking.

Why, thank you, James.

And, I think it's relevant to our conversation. Normally I wouldn't comment on a guest's attractiveness, or their body. But in your case, image is kind of everything, isn't it? It a big part of your brand.

Absolutely.

And it seems to be at the center of what you're doing with your web series, [redacted], too. Nice pun there, by the way.

[laughter] Thanks. Believe it or not, I came up with that myself. And yeah, I think a lot of what we're trying to do with the series is pick apart this, um. This kind of energy, that you so nicely illustrated for us just now, this really intense energy associated with looks and image, especially in the gay community.

And we'll get back to the series in a minute, but before that I wanted to ask about your particular image. Since you seem kind of, well, pan-categorical? I can't decide whether you're a twink, a twunk, a bear, a daddy. Maybe you can tell me. How would you describe your look?

Well, I guess I'm glad that you have trouble boxing me into the tired categories that we seem to insist upon, especially here, in a place like LA. I'm glad you think I'm pan-categorical because, first and foremost, with what I do, my body is a consumer-facing product. It has to function as an advertisement.

Appeal to the masses.

Right. But my goal, at the same time, is to listen to my body, my own biology, and push the boundaries of what a body is and isn't supposed to look like.

Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah, sure. Um, I'm naturally tall and broad, and it's easy for me to put on muscle.

OK, fuck you.

No, no, hear me out. Yes, I have a frame that naturally supports... [laughter] All of this body. And I work out a lot, that's a big part of being on those posters you mentioned. I'm not trying to say that I don't have to put effort into looking a certain way. I do. But I love to work out. I love to feel strong. At the same time, I refuse to starve myself to eight, ten percent body fat like so many other guys. I don't take drugs. I don't shave or wax. I like to eat. I think that body fat is sexy. All of that means that I'm a bit different. Definitely heftier than the average circuit party guy.

And hairier.

[laughter] Yeah, much hairier.

But you are a circuit party guy, so what gives?

Well early on, when I first moved to LA, I decided that I would present my body as if it were the, quote unquote, ideal body, because to me, it is. I feel like I am presenting the most attractive body I can.

And obviously a lot of people out there agree.

I'm really happy about that.

Were you always on the hefty side or is that something that you have to be intentional about?

I was a fat kid. I had to shop in the husky section of JC Penny to buy clothes, and I felt bad about it. Then in high school I had a growth spurt and shot up to six foot three pretty much overnight. For a while I couldn't keep any weight on. But then, I started to fill out, and I started to work out a lot. I got hairy. Around nineteen, twenty, I discovered bears.

Big hairy fat guys.

[laughter] Yeah, I realized I was really turned on by hairy guys with meat on their bones. In college, in New York, I was hooking up with all of these bears, older guys, I got really obsessed with trying to be a muscle bear myself. You can find pictures of me from four or five years ago where I'm trying to look like Jack Radcliffe.

I'm going to have to look those up.

[laughter] Is that what you're into, James?

I mean... who isn't, really, these days? As Vanessa Hudgens might say, I'm so into bears right now.

[laughter] But yeah, it was totally ridiculous. It was definitely a costume I was trying to put on, like, physically, with my body. Thankfully, that leather and cigars phase passed pretty quickly. Cigars are disgusting.

So after that was when you found your current... form?

No, by then I was starting to host events in and around New York, and I was still trying to fit into boxes. I got really toned and waxed myself for a while, that was absolutely awful. I thought I needed to do that to book gigs. It took a couple years for me to just relax and figure out what my body wanted to do. And how I could use my body as a more effective vehicle for my career.

So, you've been thinking about your body and body image for a long time, like, in terms of the package that you are presenting, or selling.

Yes. I've always been kind of obsessed with that. It seems counterintuitive, because a lot of people think that you need to become what the client wants, or the product wants you to be. But I realized that I could only really sell stuff and connect with people when I was presenting the most authentic physical version of myself.

OK, but you still have to face gatekeepers, right? So how did you go from hosting parties in New York to becoming Chris [redacted], multimedia sensation? There must have been gatekeepers that didn't appreciate your look.

You're right, I did face a lot of gatekeepers. And I still do. I get laughed out of rooms all the time. I get called fat and ugly and you name it. Look at the comments on youtube. But like I said earlier, I decided not to disqualify myself, a priori, from going into the room and presenting myself. I'm going to be in the room.

Ballsy. I'm sure a lot of people in the industry respond to that kind of confidence.

I think what's also important to realize is that I'm not just a body. I had a decent reputation from hosting events around New York. I actually learned a lot from going to drag shows. You gotta be funny, you gotta interact with the people around you. Make them feel special, like they're getting something unique when they show up. My work isn't just in the gym. I need to know the room. Who's there. Who knows who.

It comes up a lot on this podcast, folks. Know who you're talking to and what you're talking about. Recipe for success. OK, so this is all fascinating, we could, um, review... your body all day, but the main reason I wanted to talk to you today is about your web series. What I think is so interesting about it, is that you're kind of this alt-hot influencer and entertainer...

Alt-hot, I like that.

...who has been accepted into the mainstream, I guess, for lack of a better word, of gay media. And then you decide to make this show, which peels back the curtain. Putting all these other sides of your life on display, some of which don't exactly harmonize, let's say, with the kind of celebrity most influencers wield. Why not just stick with being a party boy, a thirst trap, a super trendy influencer, collect your paycheck, and call it a day?

Because the notion of being an influencer, as an end in itself, is just not interesting. It's like you showed us James, just a while ago. You have this notion of me, based on my appearance, my social media identity, Chris [redacted], like I'm someone in an alternate universe from you. And this is what most influencers want you to think. Their brand, like, what they're actually selling, is your perception of them as some sort of god, living a perfect, unattainable life.

Isn't everyone on social media projecting an idealized version of themselves?

Yes, but influencers are the kings and queens. Of course, I'm not the first person to notice this, and notice how ridiculous and toxic it is. So what can I do, that is interesting? I can make a show about how the sausage is made, at least in my case. What it takes to do what I do. And the foibles of being just another bumbling, flawed human like anyone else.

And the series, I think, definitely addresses that. I am obsessed with the series, by the way. Listeners, if you haven't seen it, pause this right now and go find it. [redacted] It's not really like anything you've ever seen before. In a good way.

Well, that's encouraging, I think?

I don't really even know how to describe it. Without trying to sound too pretentious, it's like one part vérité, one part gonzo, and one part scripted sketch comedy? Oh, and musical numbers. Am I in the ballpark?

That's actually one of the best descriptions I've heard.

Why don't you describe it for us.

Sure. It's a quasi-reality show about my life, following me as I'm working, setting up gigs, going to meetings, hosting events, et cetera, and also follows along as I try to have some semblance of a social life in LA. It's also kind of an absurdist take on the mundane things we all have to do like go grocery shopping or go to the DMV or call your insurance company, call the city to get a new trash bin. Things that, you know, most so-called influencers tend to avoid showing you.

And each episode is centered around an upcoming event that you're associated with.

Not every episode, but yeah, we do get sponsorship from some of the bigger events to produce episodes that double as promotional content.

Like the Lazy Bear episode.

Right, that was a real fun one.

In that one, the idea is that you have accidentally gotten a bit serious with a guy right before Lazy Bear, and you are trying to figure out how you can have, like, the best of both worlds. Like, keep things going with this love interest but also...

But also really

do

Lazy Bear. [laughter]

Yeah. I guess the question is, how much is real and how much is scripted? The chemistry between you and this guy seems legit, to me, as a casual observer.

Well, what I can say is that everything on the show comes from a real place, at least initially. I think people are really good at detecting bullshit. And my goal is to show an authentic version of my life.

So what's the process like, how do you bring that to life as an episode?

Well, for most episodes, Denise, my co-producer and I will meet and sort of map what's going on in my life, at the moment, onto the points or themes that we want to hit in the episode. Then we split up and each of us does some writing, generating potential scenes or scenarios. We come back and see what we have, and then try to shoot some of the more scripted stuff for a few days. And then we also have a couple days where Diego, who shoots everything for us, follows me around as I go about my daily life, sort of reality TV-style, but hopefully less obtrusively. It's just me and him, with a small camera. Nothing fancy.

What do you shoot on?

Usually a Canon 5D or a Canon 7D.

OK, so a small digital SLR camera.

Right, we are really trying to be unobtrusive.

And I assume you're miked, at least some of the time?

Yeah.

So then you have all this footage.

Yeah, we have a ton of footage and then we go into a room with lots of coffee and see what we have. A lot of times, we realize that the story that comes out is totally different than the one we planned.

That sounds like a ton of work.

It definitely is.

And then, do you ever have to shoot more?

Sometimes. For the musical numbers, almost always.

Yeah, so talk about that. The music on the show definitely stands out.

So, I'm a huge opera buff... You're looking at me surprised again. James!

OK, you're an opera buff. I am at a loss for words. Go on. Marry me, but go on.

[laughter] Well, in opera, as you may know, if you're a fan too, you have scenes that advance the plot and you also have arias, where a character sort of, pauses time to sing a song about how they feel. I've always loved that. You see it in musical theater, too, of course. But the whole show is kind of modeled after, like, the Mozart operas that I grew up listening to.

OK, so now I'm getting a better idea. That's why there's harpsichord playing, like, incidental music.

You got it. It's supposed to be like an opera, where harpsichord is there to, kind of, set the scene and also react to what's going on in the more plot-driven scenes.

And the big musical numbers are the arias.

Right.

So, probably the most famous, or infamous, of these songs is the one sung by your dick. Let's talk about your dick, Chris.

[laughter] OK.

On the show, your penis is a character. The conceit, as far as I can tell, is that your penis is a woman, a lesbian, named Girtha, who is perpetually frustrated by the fact that she is attached to a gay man.

Yeah, can you imagine anything more frustrating?

And she speaks to you in a voice that only you can hear, and she has a lot to say.

Yeah, she's voiced by my friend and co-producer Denise. Who is in fact, a frustrated lesbian who is attached to me, at least professionally. So in a way, it's great for our working relationship, because Denise can use Girtha to kind of vent about the frustrations of working with me.

I guess it's fair to say you're a handful?

[laughter] I see what you did there.

And so the musical number in question is actually a really touching love song Girtha sings about a sexy female barista who works in a coffee shop that you go to. Girtha is always, like, pestering you to talk to this barista, saying things like, ask about her tattoo, or, tell her you want your cappuccino extra frothy.

Yeah. Denise really did have a huge crush on this barista, who really does work in the coffee shop near my apartment. So we decided to roll with it.

And for the song, the video is intercut between like, soft focus, slow motion video of the barista making coffee and mostly blurred out shots of your, um, erect penis.

[laughter] Yeah.

Is it actually your dick?

Yeah, it is.

And was it...

Erect? As a matter of fact it was. That was kind of the point, Girtha is supposed to be really turned on by this girl. I mean, we had to use a dildo for some of the shots, just because otherwise it would be too risqué for youtube.

Like when dildo-Girtha wears Toni Braxton's gold belt and white cutout dress from the Unbreak My Heart music video. I think a part of me died when I saw that.

[laughter] Yeah, that was Denise's idea. She is obsessed with that music video.

You don't seem to be shy about taking your clothes off on the show. There's a lot of sex on the show.

Yeah, there is.

Talk about that. I know our listeners will be very curious.

Well, James... and curious listeners... the truth is I have a lot of sex. I love sex, it's a big, fun part of my life. And sex is also, you know, inherently ridiculous. It's another aspect of gay life that I think gets overhyped as this huge, all-important thing. When it's pretty much just animals rubbing themselves on each other. So we don't shy away from, I guess, highlighting the absurd aspects of it.

Like the hung dental hygienist.

Yeah. [laughter] The hung dental hygienist. That was wild.

Did that play out in reality the way it happened in the episode?

Yeah, pretty much.

I'm surprised that you are allowed to show so much. You guys show, like, a ton of erotic content.

I think we push the boundaries of what is permissible to show. I think we do a good job of editing things to skew wacky vs. hot and heavy. The bigger issue, so to speak, for that one, was that the dentist office didn't want us to air the episode up at all, they didn't want to be associated with the show.

How did you get around that?

Well, originally we got around it by blurring everything out, above and beyond the boners. Like all the faces, the name of the office, of course. We even digitally obscured people's voices. But then someone from the office saw how many views the video got, like in just one or two days, and then they wanted us to highlight everything, including their name and location.

You're good for business, I guess.

Yeah, the teeth of WeHo have never been cleaner.

So you're just like, sort of, always ready to go, sex-wise?

I mean... yes? In LA, you never know what's coming around the corner. And I'm open to it. Aren't you? I mean, you're a gay man, James. You can't tell me you haven't had a spontaneous hookup.

Well, it's not as easy for me, Chris. Hookups don't just fall into my lap.

Whatever, James, you're hot.

Aw, shucks, Chris. You don't need to flatter me.

But it's true. I'm not sure your listeners know what a stone cold fox you are.

Oh come on.

Seriously! You're like, well... OK, it's your turn. We talked about my look earlier, how would you describe yourself, James?

Well, now I'm blushing a bit, um. I guess I consider myself to be kind of an otter? Like a wiry, hairy white dude. Balding. Short-

ish

. A bit soft around the middle.

Oh, come on. You're not doing yourself justice. You're a handsome guy. You have a sexy beard. It looks thick and curly. My favorite kind of beard. You have these luminous, expressive blue-green eyes. You make eye contact with me when we're talking. I can tell that you're really curious about what I'm saying. It's hot.